Mwc Bayles • I feel The Beatles fit into this discussion, becuase they conveyed a message to peace and love through the pop culture to people who might have not heard the message, otherwise. Still the philosophers and others are also very important.
Mwc Bayles • I'm sure that the Mayan Calendar and philosophers talk about the apocalypse better that The Beatles, although they have something to say. I apologize for getting a little off track.
. Narveen Aryaputri • Actually, Mike Bayles, I believe you are very much on track.
It is limiting to withhold our discussion to a few thinkers. It is limiting to eliminate the Beatles from our discussion.
Why? They were a force at that time, enough of a force to be included in the esoteric " government" of UK at that time ( that inclusion had created a huge wave..)
The reason: is the sociological phenomenon, the message, the contribution and the end result.
However, I will leave the explantation and details of this to Michael Rosenthal. He, and the others here, can give an insightful reason why the '60s are a significant part of this movement we are experiencing right now.
, I have a quote from the e-G8 meeting just held in Paris, France on invitation by Mr. Sarkozy, where among other internet leaders, Mark Zucherberg and Jimmy Wales were present. This e-G8 preceeded the G8 meeting currently finishing up at Deauville in France.
The quote directly addresses the question of inclusion of the 60s philosophy and the Beatles influence that Abby brought up and that Mike Bales and Mike Rosenthal and Joe Nobling have been discussing.
This quote is interesting, and its relevence to our discussion is, as I say: delicious!
The quote is by Mr. Barlow, a former lyricist for the Grateful Dead and Wyoming rancher who used Mr. Sarkozy's e-G8 summit to take a stand against anti-piracy laws.
Such initiatives, " refuse to recognise that the net is one continuous thing adn if you control one aspect, you control all of it. You sart out with intellectual property adn you end up with expression that you do not like. You cannot control free speech. It is as simple as that."
Friday, June 17, 2011
2012: Apocalypse or Enlightenment: cultural phenomenon of the Mayan calendar
comments by
Narveen Aryaputri • now for the posting regarding the 9th. stage. or the 9th. level:
This number, in my experience, is a significant number. It happens to be my favorite number!!
Here are the few significances I am aware of;
In Vedic thought:
There are 9 forms of the Divine Mother, the 9th. being that of Saraswati - the vibration of wisdom, knowledge, music, art, script. She is evoked through intuition.
So the intuitive level is the 9th level.
Additionally:
According to Dr. Louis Gates, whose work was discussed during a previous ISE session, each of us have a 9 year cycle beginning from our birth on this earth. On the 9th year, the beginning of our cycle, we will get to request our spiritual guides what we want from our lives, we get to guide our path forwards, and our spiritual guides help us.
This is an entirely new philosophy and perspective for me, so I am examining it at this point.
What I like about it is the hope, the prospect of growth and development in our personal endeavours. Also, the feeling of not, as Dr. Gates says, carrying things accross the 'threshold' into your new cycle.
It is a fascinating thought. So many people carry burdens from the past. This concept adresses this concern.
Additonally,
The 9th. insight is a level of intution and philosophical perception that is the final and highest stage according to spiritual 'pop' philosophical books like The Celestine Prophecy.
Now we have the 9th. level as the highest stage of development in the Mayan philosophy.
As I think of more example of the significance of the 9th. level, I will post them here.
Narveen Aryaputri • now for the posting regarding the 9th. stage. or the 9th. level:
This number, in my experience, is a significant number. It happens to be my favorite number!!
Here are the few significances I am aware of;
In Vedic thought:
There are 9 forms of the Divine Mother, the 9th. being that of Saraswati - the vibration of wisdom, knowledge, music, art, script. She is evoked through intuition.
So the intuitive level is the 9th level.
Additionally:
According to Dr. Louis Gates, whose work was discussed during a previous ISE session, each of us have a 9 year cycle beginning from our birth on this earth. On the 9th year, the beginning of our cycle, we will get to request our spiritual guides what we want from our lives, we get to guide our path forwards, and our spiritual guides help us.
This is an entirely new philosophy and perspective for me, so I am examining it at this point.
What I like about it is the hope, the prospect of growth and development in our personal endeavours. Also, the feeling of not, as Dr. Gates says, carrying things accross the 'threshold' into your new cycle.
It is a fascinating thought. So many people carry burdens from the past. This concept adresses this concern.
Additonally,
The 9th. insight is a level of intution and philosophical perception that is the final and highest stage according to spiritual 'pop' philosophical books like The Celestine Prophecy.
Now we have the 9th. level as the highest stage of development in the Mayan philosophy.
As I think of more example of the significance of the 9th. level, I will post them here.
2012: Apocalypse or Enlightenment: Cultural phenomenon of the Mayan calendar
Comments by:
Joe Nobling . Is not the "philosophy of love" re-introduced throughout the ages? The Beatles sang "All You Need Is Love."
Matthew 22:36-40 (New International Version)
36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
The New Testament, as I've been indoctrinated or taught, was a change from the Old Testament in that God is a Loving God.
I'm not sure which Indian sect or religious factor teaches that we should see each other as god...maybe it's all of them...and is that why they always seem so gracious and pleasant?
It seems if all people could or would realize the godhead or that we're all part of this great universe, not to mention this planet, that it would only better the whole to communicate and learn to understand. Then another thought comes to mind about being creators. We're always creating something whether it's good or evil. Sometimes it's intended to be that way and sometimes it's not.
The realization of our inter-relatedness seems to be tantamount to progression as a person, soul, or spirit or, more simply put, growth.
There are many people who read a tome entitled The Urantia Book...it has an online presence and community as well which takes this discussion into another level, it seems to me. But, it's a dense book in many ways and, perhaps, just too much so for my shallow mind, at least with respect to my present level of existence. Besides, there is so much to do on my personal time and all in just savoring every moment, which seems to be most important and most valuable to being positive and happy which I believe wants us to be most of all for there is so much in life to find joy in.
Narveen Aryaputri • A few posts ago Mike Rosenthal mentioned the 9th level and/or the 9th state. I have been wanting to make a posting on that aspect of our discussions but have been unable to do so until now. Pardon me for my delay, please.
But before I make that posting I wish to address Joe's posting about the Vedic tradition based on acknowledging the Divine form in all living beings. It is based on the Vedic philosophy of the Atma or the Atman is all as it is part of the One, the Divine, the Supreme Soul. I am told the German language has the same word Atman, spelled Atmen and it has the same meaning.
This concept or philosophy will find its thread in the weave of many eastern traditions, beliefs and perspectives.
for example the Sufi sing of each baby born is another face of God. This concept is not restricted to the Sufi.
Essentially, the philosophical basis is that the Divine is in each of us, we are part of the Divine, and this, beautiful as it is to many who see this concept, will be contradictory to some beliefs who see the Divine or the Godhead or God as separate to themselves.. in other words , it is the controversy of duality vs non-duality. This is a big controversy and not the scope of our current discussion. I believe it is a personal belief anyway, so I am not sure it is worthy of a discussion.
By the way, the word Namaste, Sanskrit form or greeting a person with palms joined, is an acknowledgement of this Vedic concept of acknowleging, bowing to, and respecting the soul within the being before you. In lieu of the handshake, this form of greeting is routine in the eastern part of our world. Its variation is the Buddhist greeting which is a single hand lifted in acknowledgement and directed to the level of the heart. I have always been enormously touched with the Buddhist form of respect at the highest level, of touching the forehead with one's own forehead... it is so meaningful and so equisitely beautiful a gesture.. peformed by the Abbots or the learned sages to a follower, a devotee, a student whom they are acknowleging. So they will touch their forehead onto the forehead of the other one whom they are greeting. ...
as if a transference or acknowlege of wisdom...
I do not know if that is the right interpretation.. it is how I read it..
Joe Nobling . Is not the "philosophy of love" re-introduced throughout the ages? The Beatles sang "All You Need Is Love."
Matthew 22:36-40 (New International Version)
36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
The New Testament, as I've been indoctrinated or taught, was a change from the Old Testament in that God is a Loving God.
I'm not sure which Indian sect or religious factor teaches that we should see each other as god...maybe it's all of them...and is that why they always seem so gracious and pleasant?
It seems if all people could or would realize the godhead or that we're all part of this great universe, not to mention this planet, that it would only better the whole to communicate and learn to understand. Then another thought comes to mind about being creators. We're always creating something whether it's good or evil. Sometimes it's intended to be that way and sometimes it's not.
The realization of our inter-relatedness seems to be tantamount to progression as a person, soul, or spirit or, more simply put, growth.
There are many people who read a tome entitled The Urantia Book...it has an online presence and community as well which takes this discussion into another level, it seems to me. But, it's a dense book in many ways and, perhaps, just too much so for my shallow mind, at least with respect to my present level of existence. Besides, there is so much to do on my personal time and all in just savoring every moment, which seems to be most important and most valuable to being positive and happy which I believe wants us to be most of all for there is so much in life to find joy in.
Narveen Aryaputri • A few posts ago Mike Rosenthal mentioned the 9th level and/or the 9th state. I have been wanting to make a posting on that aspect of our discussions but have been unable to do so until now. Pardon me for my delay, please.
But before I make that posting I wish to address Joe's posting about the Vedic tradition based on acknowledging the Divine form in all living beings. It is based on the Vedic philosophy of the Atma or the Atman is all as it is part of the One, the Divine, the Supreme Soul. I am told the German language has the same word Atman, spelled Atmen and it has the same meaning.
This concept or philosophy will find its thread in the weave of many eastern traditions, beliefs and perspectives.
for example the Sufi sing of each baby born is another face of God. This concept is not restricted to the Sufi.
Essentially, the philosophical basis is that the Divine is in each of us, we are part of the Divine, and this, beautiful as it is to many who see this concept, will be contradictory to some beliefs who see the Divine or the Godhead or God as separate to themselves.. in other words , it is the controversy of duality vs non-duality. This is a big controversy and not the scope of our current discussion. I believe it is a personal belief anyway, so I am not sure it is worthy of a discussion.
By the way, the word Namaste, Sanskrit form or greeting a person with palms joined, is an acknowledgement of this Vedic concept of acknowleging, bowing to, and respecting the soul within the being before you. In lieu of the handshake, this form of greeting is routine in the eastern part of our world. Its variation is the Buddhist greeting which is a single hand lifted in acknowledgement and directed to the level of the heart. I have always been enormously touched with the Buddhist form of respect at the highest level, of touching the forehead with one's own forehead... it is so meaningful and so equisitely beautiful a gesture.. peformed by the Abbots or the learned sages to a follower, a devotee, a student whom they are acknowleging. So they will touch their forehead onto the forehead of the other one whom they are greeting. ...
as if a transference or acknowlege of wisdom...
I do not know if that is the right interpretation.. it is how I read it..
2012 : Apocalypse or Enlightenment: Cultural phenomenon of the Mayan Calendar
2012, Christianity and the 1960's:
John Major Jenkins makes the case in his book Galactic Alignment that not only for the Mayans but for all cultures 2012 is the turning point to the New Age. He describes many world cultures and makes the case that the December 21, 2012 Galactic Alignment is the common reference point for the many religious traditions. A world cultural phenomenon is the context out of which the next stage of consciousness is evolving.
Christianity makes the abstract - concrete - that is it's contribution. Existentialism peaked in the 1960's, both philosphically and culturally. Nietzsche, Kierkegaard, Marcel, Camus and the Beatles - an unbroken line. We are being given here the blue print of how the evolutionary frequency pattern becomes incarnated - human. And there is a local tie in - in 1967 - the book Realism was published by Iowa City philosopher Gustav Bergmann. Bergmann embodies a stage in evolutionary consciousness in himself - an original Logical Positivist whose ultimate concern in this book becomes consciousness. This is related to the story - Bergmann cleared the philosophical path for Existentialism/Phenomenology. To me Existentialism is Christianity and in that way he furthered the final Christian stage of evolution - this was not of course a consideration of his.
So, my definition of Christianity involves the evolution of world cultural development, the evolution of philosophical development culminating in Existentialism and the American popular culture of the 1960's in which the idea that everything is personal peaked - under the tutelage of Guru's - Bob Dylan, the Beatles and the Rolling Stones and now 2012.
(Please blame lack of spell check for errors in spelling not me.)
Michael Grady • Mike, I can't see how existentialism is tied in with Christianity. Jesus, and God said they are "the Great I AM". This is an ontological statement, not an existentialist one. Similarly, I AM, therefore I AM would be correct in Christinity, not Descartes treatise on "I think, therefore I am".
With that in mind, God does not exist. God IS. That would be the correct ontolological statement
Michael Rosenthal • To MG on I AM -
From the Mayan perspective God's pulse - vibration is I AM. And only God is ontologically purely this I AM. Jesus as a creature is pulled into existence by the pulse. His ontology is to be and to be becoming the pulse. Everything is what it is - that is it's ontology. Only God is simply the vibration. It is the ontology of Jesus and and all those with human being (ontology) to experience and know the pulse and what it is becoming - to know God and existence. Jesus knows God in existence and says as God is I Am. The mystery of the Trinity is that one with human ontology can say he has divine ontology. As God is I AM. Exactly this would be the end point of Calleman's final Universal 9th stage - to be co-creators - to share in divine ontology.
Michael Rosenthal • The ontological interpretation of the 9th wave is mine not Calleman's. He does not use ontological language. I assume being(!) Swedish he was raised Lutheran or certainly influenced by Lutheranism. I sense a biblical orientation behind some of his theoretical work. Lutherans are not generally prone to ontological discourse. As for Lutherans though - I am sure Tillich could do a better job with this discussion than me. My take on Existentialism/Phenomenology is that it is an alternate explanatory framework to ontological discourse actually more akin to biblical and scientific thinking. I need to say more about my existential take on what is going on in the end times and certainly Phenomenology - the study of consciousness - should have something to say about the evolution of consciousness but you will not find this in Calleman. I think for our purposes we need to keep it simple and direct and intuitive and that is what I am trying to do in this discussion. Any Existialists and by this I mean all modern Americans please add more to the discussion.
Michael Rosenthal • One more post on phenomenology - then I'll step back for a bit:
Phenomenology:
William of Occcam: the mind is the only thing that is intrinsically about something else.
Brentano: the mind is always an awareness of something (or other aspect of consciousness MR).
Calleman though referencing no phenomenologist, through the Mayans and biology, seems to have gotten it right. As the organizational structure of the universe grows and matter grows more complex from the big bang to human beings(!) - consciousness grows to reflect this organizational growth.
1. -9- Step by step evolution of the physical universe: galaxies, stars, and planets: evolution of chemical elements ---- Higher cells
1. -8- Evolution of multicellular orgnanisms, sexual polarity, a continental structure and plant kingdom to support higher life ---- Higher mammals
1. -7- Lemurs, monkeys, Australopithecans with the ability to walk upright and use tools --- Organized in families
1. -6- Human beings(!MR) who make complex tools and have rudimentary oral communication -- Organized in tribes
1. -5- Homo Sapiens with the ability to make complex tools, spoken language, art, early religion ---- Organized in regional cultures
1. -4- Written language, major construction, historical religions, science, fine art ----Organized in nations
1. -3- Materialism, industrialism, Americanism, democracy, republics, elerotechnology ---- Organized in planets
1. -2- Transcending material framework of life, telepathy, living in the light, genetic technology ---- Organized in galaxies
1. -1- NOW!
(Carl Johan Calleman - The Mayan Calendar)
Mwc Bayles • I have two comments to share. First, I'd say to some extent, we're all vibrations and energy, and part of a bigger vibration. The Beatles might have been part of the existential philosophy, as was said on these posts, but they were a huge part of the philosophy of love. George Harrison took their philosophy even further, by making it very spiritual.
John Major Jenkins makes the case in his book Galactic Alignment that not only for the Mayans but for all cultures 2012 is the turning point to the New Age. He describes many world cultures and makes the case that the December 21, 2012 Galactic Alignment is the common reference point for the many religious traditions. A world cultural phenomenon is the context out of which the next stage of consciousness is evolving.
Christianity makes the abstract - concrete - that is it's contribution. Existentialism peaked in the 1960's, both philosphically and culturally. Nietzsche, Kierkegaard, Marcel, Camus and the Beatles - an unbroken line. We are being given here the blue print of how the evolutionary frequency pattern becomes incarnated - human. And there is a local tie in - in 1967 - the book Realism was published by Iowa City philosopher Gustav Bergmann. Bergmann embodies a stage in evolutionary consciousness in himself - an original Logical Positivist whose ultimate concern in this book becomes consciousness. This is related to the story - Bergmann cleared the philosophical path for Existentialism/Phenomenology. To me Existentialism is Christianity and in that way he furthered the final Christian stage of evolution - this was not of course a consideration of his.
So, my definition of Christianity involves the evolution of world cultural development, the evolution of philosophical development culminating in Existentialism and the American popular culture of the 1960's in which the idea that everything is personal peaked - under the tutelage of Guru's - Bob Dylan, the Beatles and the Rolling Stones and now 2012.
(Please blame lack of spell check for errors in spelling not me.)
Michael Grady • Mike, I can't see how existentialism is tied in with Christianity. Jesus, and God said they are "the Great I AM". This is an ontological statement, not an existentialist one. Similarly, I AM, therefore I AM would be correct in Christinity, not Descartes treatise on "I think, therefore I am".
With that in mind, God does not exist. God IS. That would be the correct ontolological statement
Michael Rosenthal • To MG on I AM -
From the Mayan perspective God's pulse - vibration is I AM. And only God is ontologically purely this I AM. Jesus as a creature is pulled into existence by the pulse. His ontology is to be and to be becoming the pulse. Everything is what it is - that is it's ontology. Only God is simply the vibration. It is the ontology of Jesus and and all those with human being (ontology) to experience and know the pulse and what it is becoming - to know God and existence. Jesus knows God in existence and says as God is I Am. The mystery of the Trinity is that one with human ontology can say he has divine ontology. As God is I AM. Exactly this would be the end point of Calleman's final Universal 9th stage - to be co-creators - to share in divine ontology.
Michael Rosenthal • The ontological interpretation of the 9th wave is mine not Calleman's. He does not use ontological language. I assume being(!) Swedish he was raised Lutheran or certainly influenced by Lutheranism. I sense a biblical orientation behind some of his theoretical work. Lutherans are not generally prone to ontological discourse. As for Lutherans though - I am sure Tillich could do a better job with this discussion than me. My take on Existentialism/Phenomenology is that it is an alternate explanatory framework to ontological discourse actually more akin to biblical and scientific thinking. I need to say more about my existential take on what is going on in the end times and certainly Phenomenology - the study of consciousness - should have something to say about the evolution of consciousness but you will not find this in Calleman. I think for our purposes we need to keep it simple and direct and intuitive and that is what I am trying to do in this discussion. Any Existialists and by this I mean all modern Americans please add more to the discussion.
Michael Rosenthal • One more post on phenomenology - then I'll step back for a bit:
Phenomenology:
William of Occcam: the mind is the only thing that is intrinsically about something else.
Brentano: the mind is always an awareness of something (or other aspect of consciousness MR).
Calleman though referencing no phenomenologist, through the Mayans and biology, seems to have gotten it right. As the organizational structure of the universe grows and matter grows more complex from the big bang to human beings(!) - consciousness grows to reflect this organizational growth.
1. -9- Step by step evolution of the physical universe: galaxies, stars, and planets: evolution of chemical elements ---- Higher cells
1. -8- Evolution of multicellular orgnanisms, sexual polarity, a continental structure and plant kingdom to support higher life ---- Higher mammals
1. -7- Lemurs, monkeys, Australopithecans with the ability to walk upright and use tools --- Organized in families
1. -6- Human beings(!MR) who make complex tools and have rudimentary oral communication -- Organized in tribes
1. -5- Homo Sapiens with the ability to make complex tools, spoken language, art, early religion ---- Organized in regional cultures
1. -4- Written language, major construction, historical religions, science, fine art ----Organized in nations
1. -3- Materialism, industrialism, Americanism, democracy, republics, elerotechnology ---- Organized in planets
1. -2- Transcending material framework of life, telepathy, living in the light, genetic technology ---- Organized in galaxies
1. -1- NOW!
(Carl Johan Calleman - The Mayan Calendar)
Mwc Bayles • I have two comments to share. First, I'd say to some extent, we're all vibrations and energy, and part of a bigger vibration. The Beatles might have been part of the existential philosophy, as was said on these posts, but they were a huge part of the philosophy of love. George Harrison took their philosophy even further, by making it very spiritual.
2012 Apocalypse or Enlightenment: cultural phenomenon of the Mayan Calendar
The influnce of the '60s if bringing forwards a Higher Consiousness:
comments from Michael Grady:
Michael Grady • I think you are right Mike, it is personal. I only talk about it among friends, otherwise it's a bit unbelievable.
The 60's, in my view, was mostly just a psychosocial shift from repression to impulsion, even compulsion. Now that we've experienced both extreme sides, the real truth is in the middle balance, and that's where we're heading. Whether we get there in one piece in not yet known. There are many special interests that want to keep us disoriented, for profit purposes.
As one example of those special interests, the physics of thermodynamics, long run by greed, must ultimately be replaced as a paradigm in favor of a gentle, quiet and emission-free energy derived from Nature. That's an example of an over-masculine mentality transformed into a balanced mentality. But in order to move to that point, in the psychological dimension, we must transform first into an affirming "be-ing" based culture, with less emphasis on placing ultimate value of a person's worth on what the person "does".
I don't know if we will get to that point. Ultimately, a human's be-ing of unique personhood starts at fertilization, not at birth. Until we get honest with that singular truth, expect either enlightenment or annihilation, in my *personal* view.
Mwc Bayles • The question of a good life always involves balance. Freedom needs to be balanced with responsibility. Choices must be considered in light of consequences. A lot of choices made are not made very thoughtfully.
Michael Rosenthal • More on the 1960's. Unless consciousness is incarnated it does not exist. And if it is to exist in it's highest form - human - that human must exist. Here is where the Mayan system breaks down. It does not bridge well to the individual and that is the strong suit of Christianity. The Mayan culture broke down at that point where it met Christianity precisely because it needed Christianity. My experience, my faith tells me that the 1960's were a high point of Christian civilization. And if that is true - it was more than just in the air. Ask George Harrison - when he sang "My Sweet Lord" - it was to a living person. You need to read between the lines of 1960's music to know what was and going on. Ask Dylan, Paul and Mic - they know more than they are saying. Why the recent attack of Joni Mitchell on Bob Dylan? It was not over music. It was over honesty and urgency.
Michael Grady • Mike, I understand a lot more now. Lots of wisdom. Greatly appreciated. Thanks for that bridge. Was wondering if you could analyze one verse from John Lennon. He sang: "Imagine there's no heaven, imagine there's no hell".
Yet, in the universe of ontology that I know best, I think it would be more accurate to sing "Imagine there's no earth". How do you reflect on this?
Michael Grady • Mike, one more interesting thing to consider: George Harrison was the first in Western culture to introduce the Indian sitar to the public. Of appreciable interest in this is the shift from 440hz to 432hz, which is a move away from the slightly distorted to the correct ancient harmonic based in nature. An interesting discourse is here: http://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=34514&page=16
comments from Michael Grady:
Michael Grady • I think you are right Mike, it is personal. I only talk about it among friends, otherwise it's a bit unbelievable.
The 60's, in my view, was mostly just a psychosocial shift from repression to impulsion, even compulsion. Now that we've experienced both extreme sides, the real truth is in the middle balance, and that's where we're heading. Whether we get there in one piece in not yet known. There are many special interests that want to keep us disoriented, for profit purposes.
As one example of those special interests, the physics of thermodynamics, long run by greed, must ultimately be replaced as a paradigm in favor of a gentle, quiet and emission-free energy derived from Nature. That's an example of an over-masculine mentality transformed into a balanced mentality. But in order to move to that point, in the psychological dimension, we must transform first into an affirming "be-ing" based culture, with less emphasis on placing ultimate value of a person's worth on what the person "does".
I don't know if we will get to that point. Ultimately, a human's be-ing of unique personhood starts at fertilization, not at birth. Until we get honest with that singular truth, expect either enlightenment or annihilation, in my *personal* view.
Mwc Bayles • The question of a good life always involves balance. Freedom needs to be balanced with responsibility. Choices must be considered in light of consequences. A lot of choices made are not made very thoughtfully.
Michael Rosenthal • More on the 1960's. Unless consciousness is incarnated it does not exist. And if it is to exist in it's highest form - human - that human must exist. Here is where the Mayan system breaks down. It does not bridge well to the individual and that is the strong suit of Christianity. The Mayan culture broke down at that point where it met Christianity precisely because it needed Christianity. My experience, my faith tells me that the 1960's were a high point of Christian civilization. And if that is true - it was more than just in the air. Ask George Harrison - when he sang "My Sweet Lord" - it was to a living person. You need to read between the lines of 1960's music to know what was and going on. Ask Dylan, Paul and Mic - they know more than they are saying. Why the recent attack of Joni Mitchell on Bob Dylan? It was not over music. It was over honesty and urgency.
Michael Grady • Mike, I understand a lot more now. Lots of wisdom. Greatly appreciated. Thanks for that bridge. Was wondering if you could analyze one verse from John Lennon. He sang: "Imagine there's no heaven, imagine there's no hell".
Yet, in the universe of ontology that I know best, I think it would be more accurate to sing "Imagine there's no earth". How do you reflect on this?
Michael Grady • Mike, one more interesting thing to consider: George Harrison was the first in Western culture to introduce the Indian sitar to the public. Of appreciable interest in this is the shift from 440hz to 432hz, which is a move away from the slightly distorted to the correct ancient harmonic based in nature. An interesting discourse is here: http://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=34514&page=16
2012 Apocalypse or Enlightenment: cultural phenomenon of the Mayan calendar
Michael Rosenthal • There are a number of Mayan calendars. The Mayans were obsessed with time and astronomy. The long count calendar we are discussing was a 20 X 13 = 260 calendar. All ages of the universe could fit in this 260 frame.
Nine levels of Mayan creation
20 (18) days = 260(234) D (Calleman - Jenkins debate as to end date of October 28, 2011 or December 21, 2012)
360 days = 19.7 D
19.7 years = 256 Y
394.2 years = 5,125 Y
7,900 years = 103,000 Y
158,000 years = 2.05M Y
3.2 Million years = 41 MY
63.1 Million years X 13 = 820 MY
1.26 Billion years = 16.4 BY
(The Purposeful Universe - Calleman)
The entire existence of the universe is recorded here according to Calleman. So counting from the beginning of the creation event of the big bang we could theoretically by 260 increments count down to 2012. This is why 2011-12-13 is the end - is mirrored in the very framework of the calendar 20X13::2013 (the date 2013). The end point of creation of higher levels of consciousness in nine stages - matter(cells), organisms, monkeys, humans, language, nations states, world organization, galactic information, human religious fulfilment. Calleman is a Ph.D. biologist, Mayan independant scholar, and evolutionary creationist who believes creation started with the big bang and continues to unfold to an inherent scheme.
Mike Bayles: • Are we talking about a completion of a cycle and moving to another cycle?
Michael Rosenthal • Each cycle is 13 parts long and the next cycle in the above chart fits into the last 13th or 7 days and six nights = 13 - 7th day. The 13th stage or 7th day of the Planetary started in 1992, the 7th day of the Galactic started november 3, 2010, and we are now in the 2nd nighth of final evolutionary period know as the Universal stage of evolution. We have progressed to the final - 7th day of all stages but the Universal. The
final day for all stages is October 28, 2011 - according to Calleman.
9 - Universal (Now!)
8 - Galactic
7 - Planetary
6 - National
5 - Regional
4 - Human
3 - Anthripoid
2 - Mammalian
1 - Cellular (big bang)
Thanks for the question. I will continue to fill in details for those who missed the lecture. If you were there please add comments. It is a complete system and can accomodate much speculation.
Nine levels of Mayan creation
20 (18) days = 260(234) D (Calleman - Jenkins debate as to end date of October 28, 2011 or December 21, 2012)
360 days = 19.7 D
19.7 years = 256 Y
394.2 years = 5,125 Y
7,900 years = 103,000 Y
158,000 years = 2.05M Y
3.2 Million years = 41 MY
63.1 Million years X 13 = 820 MY
1.26 Billion years = 16.4 BY
(The Purposeful Universe - Calleman)
The entire existence of the universe is recorded here according to Calleman. So counting from the beginning of the creation event of the big bang we could theoretically by 260 increments count down to 2012. This is why 2011-12-13 is the end - is mirrored in the very framework of the calendar 20X13::2013 (the date 2013). The end point of creation of higher levels of consciousness in nine stages - matter(cells), organisms, monkeys, humans, language, nations states, world organization, galactic information, human religious fulfilment. Calleman is a Ph.D. biologist, Mayan independant scholar, and evolutionary creationist who believes creation started with the big bang and continues to unfold to an inherent scheme.
Mike Bayles: • Are we talking about a completion of a cycle and moving to another cycle?
Michael Rosenthal • Each cycle is 13 parts long and the next cycle in the above chart fits into the last 13th or 7 days and six nights = 13 - 7th day. The 13th stage or 7th day of the Planetary started in 1992, the 7th day of the Galactic started november 3, 2010, and we are now in the 2nd nighth of final evolutionary period know as the Universal stage of evolution. We have progressed to the final - 7th day of all stages but the Universal. The
final day for all stages is October 28, 2011 - according to Calleman.
9 - Universal (Now!)
8 - Galactic
7 - Planetary
6 - National
5 - Regional
4 - Human
3 - Anthripoid
2 - Mammalian
1 - Cellular (big bang)
Thanks for the question. I will continue to fill in details for those who missed the lecture. If you were there please add comments. It is a complete system and can accomodate much speculation.
2012 Apocalypse or Enlightenment: cultural phenomenon of the Mayan calendar
Comment by William Hiebert • Could you write on the relationship of the Second Coming of Christ and the Mayan End of Time?
Narveen Aryaputri • question is forwarded to Michael Rosenthal
The question from Bill Hiebert is fascinating, and very focused on the topic title.
I, for one, am very much waiting for some insight from you. Many of us here, me inclusive, have little or no knowledge of the answer to this question. I am certain you do.
Waiting for your response
Response from Michael Rosenthal:
To Narveen on North American indigenous prophecy:
Most famous - HOPI:
1 Coming of the white skin men.
2 Coming of the spinning wheels full of voices - WAGON TRAINS.
3 Strange beasts like buffalo but with great horns will overrun the land - CATTLE (longhorns).
4 Land will be crisscrossed with snakes of iron - RAILROAD TRACKS.
5 The land will be crisscrossed by a giant spiders web - COMMUNICATIONS.
6 The land will be crisscrossed by rivers of stone that make pictures in the sun - HIGHWAYS.
7 You will hear of the seas turning black and many things dieing because of it - OIL SPILLS.
8 You will see many youth who wear their hair long like my people come and join the tribal nations and learn their ways and wisdom - THE 1960's.
STILL LEFT?
9 You will hear a dwelling place in the heavens above the earth that will fall with a great crash - it will appear as a blue star.
White Feather - 1959 - The Book of the Hopi - Frank Waters. One of many sources.
Response from Michael Rosenthal • Narveen - talk about putting me on the spot - I was going to say see above. Mayans and the Second Coming of Christ.
Michael Rosenthal • Second Coming and the Mayan Prophecy Ultimately the proof of both is personal. Does an inventory of your personal experience support the belief we are in the end times? In some ways all times are the end times but is now special? I experienced the Second Coming in the 1960's - "the times they are a-changing" and they still are. The culture - the songs - something special was happening. He and/or she was and is still here. As with the fulfillment of the Mayan prophecy - we are just talking about the details. And we await the continuing possibility of their disclosure.
Narveen Aryaputri • question is forwarded to Michael Rosenthal
The question from Bill Hiebert is fascinating, and very focused on the topic title.
I, for one, am very much waiting for some insight from you. Many of us here, me inclusive, have little or no knowledge of the answer to this question. I am certain you do.
Waiting for your response
Response from Michael Rosenthal:
To Narveen on North American indigenous prophecy:
Most famous - HOPI:
1 Coming of the white skin men.
2 Coming of the spinning wheels full of voices - WAGON TRAINS.
3 Strange beasts like buffalo but with great horns will overrun the land - CATTLE (longhorns).
4 Land will be crisscrossed with snakes of iron - RAILROAD TRACKS.
5 The land will be crisscrossed by a giant spiders web - COMMUNICATIONS.
6 The land will be crisscrossed by rivers of stone that make pictures in the sun - HIGHWAYS.
7 You will hear of the seas turning black and many things dieing because of it - OIL SPILLS.
8 You will see many youth who wear their hair long like my people come and join the tribal nations and learn their ways and wisdom - THE 1960's.
STILL LEFT?
9 You will hear a dwelling place in the heavens above the earth that will fall with a great crash - it will appear as a blue star.
White Feather - 1959 - The Book of the Hopi - Frank Waters. One of many sources.
Response from Michael Rosenthal • Narveen - talk about putting me on the spot - I was going to say see above. Mayans and the Second Coming of Christ.
Michael Rosenthal • Second Coming and the Mayan Prophecy Ultimately the proof of both is personal. Does an inventory of your personal experience support the belief we are in the end times? In some ways all times are the end times but is now special? I experienced the Second Coming in the 1960's - "the times they are a-changing" and they still are. The culture - the songs - something special was happening. He and/or she was and is still here. As with the fulfillment of the Mayan prophecy - we are just talking about the details. And we await the continuing possibility of their disclosure.
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